PERKASA UNFAZED BY UNSAVOURY LABELS ... QnA WITH IBRAHIM ALI

 

BY SHAHANAAZ HABIB/DATO IBRAHIM ALI

The often controversial Perkasa that gets non-Malays angry with its seemingly aggressive and racist views. Here it gives its side on how it sees things.

There are framed up news clippings on the walls of the Perkasa head office, a clear sign of how this Malay rights group thrives on publicity. Perkasa has been called racist, samseng and for some they seem to be sowing racial discord in the country. Its president Datuk Ibrahim Ali shrugs off the labels, saying it only makes them even more recognised.

Claiming to have a membership of half a million, with a supreme council of ex-generals, senior lawyers and academics, Perkasa is being looked at by some as a hero to ensure that Malay rights are not whittled away.

The former Pasir Mas MP is easily excitable and his demeanour loud.

During this interview, he spoke passionately, often raising his voice even thumping the table numerous times to prove his point. But that’s just his style.

Ibrahim says he speaks that way even when he is with former PM Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad, the Perkasa patron, whom he is close to.

“At times, Dr Mahathir has told me to slow down and speak softer a bit but I just can’t.” he says.

RACIST? OPPORTUNIST ? and SUCCESS

Q: Perkasa is being seen as a racist group. Do you even have non-Malay friends?
A: My business partner of the past 20 years is a Chinese and my driver for the last 20 years is an Indian. Perkasa initiated the setting up of Mirac, an inter-racial NGO comprising Perkasa, Percisma which is a Chinese NGO and Perinnbam an Indian NGO. I also have close non-Malay friends in NGOs, politicians and MPs so I don’t have a problem with other races. I am 62 now. When I was a deputy minister and as an MP, I didn’t have a problem with the Chinese and I didn’t either with the Chinese in my constituency.

But people are calling me racist now. That only started when I formed Perkasa in 2008. Its objective is to defend the Malay interest, uphold the sanctity of Islam and the institution of the Rulers. Perkasa criticises the opposition a lot so they see us as being pro-Umno which is not true. But they brand all sorts of things including racist.

We do meet the PM or DPM openly or quietly as well as other Umno leaders. As an NGO we have to engage. To me, it is a stumbling block if Perkasa does not make statements which are pro government once in a while.

PAS is seen as an Islamist party and now they collaborate with DAP and (Lim) Kit Siang. In the past, when they were not friends yet, PAS said a lot of things about DAP. They used to say being friends with the Chinese is haram and labelled them infidels and all that. But now that they are close, whatever DAP does, PAS doesn’t say anything to oppose it. Perkasa makes noise because we feel PAS is selling the soul of its struggle to DAP.

There are many Islamic issues that have surfaced including the kalimah Allah issue and basic principles of Islam which PAS does not defend. So we in Perkasa feel that if we support PAS, then we are supporting ‘Malaysian Malaysia’.

Also DAP and others have twisted (PM Datuk Seri) Najib (Tun Razak’s ) concept of ‘1Malaysia’ to mean ‘Malaysian Malaysia’ and accuse us of being a stumbling block to 1Malaysia. But that is not true. 1Malaysia and Malaysian Malaysia are not the same. They are confusing the two.

1Malaysia adheres to the Federal Constitution, affirmative action and the social contract. When we speak up on Islamic matters based on the Federal Constituition, they say we are a stumbling block.

Najib made it clear that 1Malaysia is based on the Federal Constitution and not an inch of what is in the constituition (on bumiputera special rights) will be touched. We are only defending this but we are accused of being an obstacle. And this is only because we are not supporting the opposition.

(‘Malaysian Malaysia’ is a DAP concept from the 1960s where all ethnic groups have equal rights while 1Malaysia emphasises a united Malaysia while maintaining special bumiputera rights as enshrined in Article 153 of the Federal Constitution.)

We criticise the ruling government too. If they get upset, it is confined to certain individuals in Umno or MCA and not the political party or Barisan Nasional as a whole.

Whereas with opposition, individuals from (PAS Datuk Seri) Hadi Awang, (DAP) Lim Kit Siang, Lim Guan Eng right down to (Datuk Seri) Anwar Ibrahim are against Perkasa and so are the parties as a whole.

 

Q: Since it was set up in 2008, has Perkasa been a success?

A: Yes it has. I myself am shocked at the number joining Perkasa and the support from sympathisers especially government servants.

When I go to universities or when I meet a lot of government officers, they shake hands with me they say ‘Ibrahim there is nobody else. Only you who can speak for the Malays and Islam. We can’t trust anyone else so please go ahead with Perkasa’. Some tell me that they are not a member of Perkasa but fully support the cause.

I think they have seen that after 2008 and 2013 general elections – even though Umno, has done better than 2008 - that when it comes to issues like Islam and Allah and the Malay economy, the Malays want people who can speak up.

Najib is being attacked after the 2013 elections and is caving in to pressure by the opposition. And the Malays are not satisfied.

Q: What do you see as strengths of the different races in the country?
A: The Chinese are quite united. They have thousands of NGOs representing the Chinese including an association of cyclists. When they come forward over some issue or when they are demanding something, they are very united. Just take the Suqiu memorandum. Every time just before election, they will put out their (17 point) memorandum of demands. The Chinese too support Dong Jiao Zong (United Chinese Schools Commitee Association of Malaysia) .

As for the Indians, like the Malays, they get fragmented easily which is why Indians here have so many political parties among them. Even though they are small in numbers and split, they are very brave.

The Malays are represented by two big parties and their strength are almost the same so they are divided. That’s why they are weak compared to other races.

In Sabah and Sarawak, I see that regardless of race and religion, they are quite united because of the leadership of their states.

I’ ve been to Sarawak and I see no problem. We actually have a number of non-Muslim members in Perkasa from Sarawak but we are just not that active there. We are not in hurry there.
In Sabah, Perkasa has more than 40,000 members and we are active. Our chairman is Boni (Yusuf) who is the PBS Sandakan chief.

Whenever I meet (Sabah PBS president and former Chief Minister Datuk Seri Joseph) Pairin, he hugs me and I hug him because he knows me and my background. We are not enemies with any race or religion.

Q: People see you as an opportunist jumping on issues just to provoke?
A: I have heard people say this of me but tell me who isn’t an opportunist? But the biggest opportunists are the political parties and heads of political parties.
 
If you look at me as a person being a student leader and until today what am I fighting for? If I am an opportunist, I wouldn’t speak as loudly as I am doing today. Even while I was in Umno, I was one of the most outspoken ones. I think that is the reason I was sacked and not reappointed as the Pasir Mas division head.

When I was an MP, did you hear how I speak in parliament? I spoke as though I have no party. If it’s something good even for the interest of the non Malays, I will say it. Whatever is not good, I will attack.

My relationship with party leaders is like a love-hate relationship. I am close to Tengku Razaleigh Hamzah and he is my mentor but I dare to criticise him. I was in Kamunting for two years with Anwar and I dare to criticise him too. He never liked me from back then too because I am the only one who speaks loud and speaks my mind. So I put everyone in a position of ‘love- hate’.

But leaders also like me because I am hard-working, vocal and I have a clean record. As for the jumping of political parties all that was circumstantial. I supported Berjasa to overthrow (the then Kelantan Menteri Besar Datuk Mohd) Asri (Muda) . And Berjasa declared me as their Youth chief. Then I left Berjasa and joined Umno. After Umno was declared illegal, I was with Semangat 46. But I was never a PAS member. 

Look at Sabah. There are many politicians there who jump parties. And what about Saifuddin Nasution? He was in Umno, then PAS now in PKR. But why are they picking on me?

For the record, I didn’t join PAS. I only co-operated with them. In 2008, they allowed me to use their symbol. They asked me to join the party but I said ‘no’. I cannot subscribe to PAS’ ideology. It was purely for political reasons for them too because at that time they were not sure if they can continue to rule Kelantan because they had only a majority of 2 seats in the state assembly after the 2004 election. They offered the Pasir Mas seat to me in 2008 because they wanted to secure enough seats to form the state government.

RACIAL HARMONY
 
Q: What do you think of racial harmony now compared to the 1970s and 1980s?
A: During Dr Mahathir’s time, the harmony between the races was so good – even if there were problems here and there – it did not become an issue.

In 2004, when Pak Lah (Abdullah Ahmad Badawi) took over, it was still okay. Pak Lah’s leadership was very weak and (former PM Tun) Dr Mahathir Mohamad attacked.
 
In 2008 when Barisan Nasional did not get the two thirds majority, that’s where everything began. In the past, when issues on race and religion crop up, Dr Mahathir was so quick in taking action. I myself was held under the ISA in 1987.

Whatever people say about Dr Mahathir being a dictator and that his style of leadership was undemocratic, his firmness benefitted the country.
 
After the 2008 general election, Pak Lah was too weak to tackle issues. And when Najib took over as the PM , the opposition pushed for ISA to be abolised and it was a popular issue. Najib wanted to ride on the wave of popularity and he abolished the ISA and now it has become even worse.

There is no preventive measures now. In the past, people would think twice before going out to the streets to demonstrate because of the ISA. Now that it is gone, they are no longer afraid.

Q: But there was racial segregation during Dr Mahathir’s time. You can see people of one race sitting together at coffee shops instead of all races mixing like before that.
A: That’s true. But in the past, before anything becomes an issue, action is taken so people won’t talk as they fear the ISA.

There are problems here and there during Dr Mahathir’s time but this is normal for anywhere in the world. Malaysia is a multiracial country. We have many problems like economic problems.

During Dr Mahathir’s time, were there people who flung pig’s heads in a mosque? In the past few years, there have been incidents in 11 mosques . Before this, did such things happen? No.
 
(Some of these mosques include Masjid Al Hidayah, Sentul, Masjid Nurul Iman, Rawang, Masjid Taman Datuk Harun, KL, Masijd Al Imam Tirmizi, KL, Masjid Sri Sentosa, KL and Masjid Al Falah, Tmn Desa, Johor, with earliest reported in 2010)

Q What can be done now that racial harmony is at stake?
A: It’s difficult now. The government and the police do not have an effective instrument like the ISA to act firmly and fast. If they had it, then they can follow that up with programmes that instil awareness in the people. But now you can do whatever and get away with it.

Q: But times have changed?
A: But the US introduced a preventive detention act (against terrorists) while Singapore never abolished the ISA. Why do people complain this and that is not right with Malaysia What about other countries?

Q: But Perkasa might end up being the one held under the ISA or charged under the Sedition Act because of its views?
A: That is because they (opposition) are not happy. In the 2013 election, Barisan lost in Chinese seats but there was an increase in the number of Malay seats. I want to claim that a certain extent that Umno added the nine seats because Perkasa played the role. Perkasa has been championing the issue of the Malays. We spread the word telling the Malays not to vote for PAS because they are the tools of DAP. The Malays might be not happy with Umno but, like it or not, in the end they supported Umno.

UMNO ; MALAY UNITY

Q: Umno says if indeed Perkasa helped Umno win more Malay seats, then surely you and (Perkasa vice president) Zulkifli Nordin would have won in the 2013 general election but both of you didn’t?
I contested as an independent. (Barisan did not field a candidate in the Pasir Mas seat because their chosen candidate, Che Johan Che Pa, a protege of Ibahim did not file his nomination papers, resulting in a straight fight between Ibrahim and the PAS candidate for that seat)

Zulkifli Nordin contested as a Barisan independent candidate but his candidacy was announced one day before the elections. That did not give enough time to prepare.
 
Zulkifli or I are not the yardstick to use to measure if Perkasa is great. Maybe if Zulkifli didn’t contest in Shah Alam, then Barisan would have have lost by a bigger margin.

In some areas, Perkasa might have 500 votes and in others maybe 100, 200 or maybe 2000.

There are constituencies that Barisan won only by a slim majority and those are the places we contributed. How is it that Barisan managed to wrest Kedah? Have they been strong all this while?

Q: But surely that is not because of Perkasa ‘power’?
A: We were the ones preparing the ground and changing the mindset of the people. We did programmes on illegal logging in Kedah and brought up 257 buses with 50,000 people to show the affected areas. We did a motorcycle convoy. I went there myself and held many ceramah and I think that is why Barisan can rule Kedah today.

In Perak, after the 2008 general election, three Pakatan assemblymen crossed and became independent. For the 2013 election Barisan lost in those three areas but it won in another three. Why? Because we did a a ‘Perpaduan Melayu’ gathering in Bagan Serai and Dr Mahathir went there to speak. We did this one month before the general election and Barisan won the Bagan Serai parliament and the three state seats in it. This is what saved the Barisan government (in Perak).

Q: But that is not Perkasa power but rather Dr Mahathir’s power?
A: No. Since Dr Mahathir retired, where is there a crowd of more than 5,000 or 10,000 coming to hear him speak? If it’s an Umno function at the HQ then yes. There would be the Umno people but it’s different in the states. Is the crowd as big as at Perkasa’s functions? That’s why Dr Mahathir never turns down Perkasa’s invitations.

Q: Is Perkasa trying to steal the credit from Umno now that Umno has become strong again?
A: No. We are not claiming or seeking credit. What I know is that Perkasa members worked really hard to make Barisan candidates win. If Umno doesn’t want to give us credit, we too don’t want it. Let’s wait and see in the next general election. If Perkasa doesn’t do its work then we will see what happens to Barisan! I dare to challenge Umno on this.

Q: Are you going to form a political party?
A: At the moment ‘no’. A lot of Perkasa members have started to pressure Perkasa asking us to change into a political party but I said ‘no’ because we want to remain as a political NGO. As long as I am president we want to remain that way.
 
The Malays have become like the Indians. We are divided among ourselves. So the small number of votes Perkasa holds actually determines which party wins. We are the kingmakers.

Some Barisan candidates won by a majority of 200 votes, some by 1,000 votes. What happens if there aren’t these 300 or so Perkasa members to give Barisan their win? Don’t look at Ibrahim Ali and Zullifli Nordin but at the bigger picture, our activities, our members, the whole contribution.
 
Can you imagine if Perkasa did not support Barisan and if Ibrahim Ali was still co-operating with PAS? Then I’d go and campaign around Malaysia in the same way as (PAS) Mohamad Sabu does and what will happen to Umno? Umno ni kena insaf sikit (Umno has to realise this).

Politically, PAS is better than Umno in terms of playing the game. They don’t care who you are.
 
When Tengku Razaleigh formed Semangat 46, I followed him but when Dr Mahathir invited me back to Umno after 1990, I crossed over and I contested in 2004 but lost by 3,000 votes.
 
There is already a precedent here so many PAS members were saying that if PAS allowed Ibrahim Ali to contest on their ticket in 2008, he will leave PAS as he did in 1990. PAS and (PAS Kelantan Menteri Besar then) Datuk Seri Nik Aziz Mat know there is such a possibility. But they still allowed me to contest under their banner in 2008 because PAS is pragmatic. They feel that I can bring the votes for PAS at Pasir Mas- even if it is not overwhelming but enough to secure a win - so they are willing to give that seat up to me.

This is so different from Umno. The Bukit Bintang and Batu parliament are Chinese majority seats and yet Umno people want to try and grab it and be the Barisan candidate there. That is the thinking of Umno leaders. For us in Perkasa, we have nothing to lose. We support Umno because we love the Malays and the country.
 
Q: How many Perkasa members are Umno members. Is it about 50%?
More! I can say Umno members make up 70% of Perkasa members. And who are they? Umno has 3.3 mil members. Last time, when a division chief wants to contest and needs the numbers, he registers kampong folks as Umno members without their knowledge. On record they are members.
In 2008, Pak Lah lost two thirds majority and Umno lost many seats. Who didn’t vote Umno? Umno members.

These dissatisfied Umno members are the ones who joined Perkasa. Many Umno members who did not vote for Umno in 2008 voted for it in the 2013 election. Why? We think it’s because of Perkasa’s role. If there was no Perkasa, they will go to PAS or other NGO which are anti government.
They came to Perkasa which is not the same as going to the opposition. We are critical of Umno so we are in between.

If not, how is it that Perkasa is able to attract people of very good standing into our supreme council? We have four ex- generals, eight senior lawyers, four academics and a doctor. Do you think they are stupid to want to follow Ibrahim Ali? I was shocked why these people supported me. Who am I ? They are professors, senior lawyers. They said they support me as president because of the issues happening today and because I am outspoken and that even though I have ‘jumped’ parties, they are convinced I am a clean man, not a womaniser and have no scandals. They say one of the problems for the Malays is that they do not have a bold leader.
 

Why does Anwar get support even though people know about his ‘moral’ issues? It is because people are not satisfied with the government and nobody comes out and fights for them.

During Pak Lah’s time the price of things went up and many were not happy and Anwar who wants to be PM rides on these issues. People still support him - not because they like Anwar - but because they hate the government.

Q: Perkasa is big on Malay unity so why can’t it help forge unity between Umno and PAS?
A: No, we don’t want to play a role there. I have friends in PAS and in Umno. I know at grassroots level there is no problem. It is the top that is fighting and that fight at the top between the two parties will never be resolved. I can’t play the role because Anwar has ambitions to be PM and many in PAS too want to be the deputy PM and ministers. It is not easy.

PAS now has some power, they have supporters and party interest to look after. They rule Kelantan and have ruled Kedah for a term and have seats in the Selangor and Penang (Pakatan ruled) states. They have appointed a lot of party workers into various agencies and all these people have interest.
 

If you ask me how to fix the lack of the Malay unity in the country, it is not on a party to party solution. It has to move from ground up and that is what I am doing. I am bringing awareness to the Malays that they must be one. Last time, the Malays were strong because they could unite under Umno and that no matter how flawed Umno was, they were still in Umno. At that time, 80% Malays were in Umno and 20% in PAS. But now support is split to almost 50-50. To me, it doesn’t matter if the Malays unite under Umno or PAS. They choose either one. How to call for a muzakarah (discussion) between Umno and PAS? Who calls it and who joins whom?

And there is a lot of self interest. Even the Batu parliament seat, Umno people want to grab at contesting.

I feel the only way to unite is like the past. 

Umno, no matter how lacking it is, they have a track record in looking after the interest of the country and in power sharing. But if you look at Pakatan Rakyat, the parties in it are not registered as a single entity like Barisan and each has different ideologies and contest using their own symbols. They are not tested so we cannot take the risk.

The problem now is that 50% of the Malays are for Umno and 50% are for PAS. I am in between. I just want the Malays to be in one group. It can’t be 50% PAS and it can’t be 50% Umno. Either 80% go to Umno or to PAS. That’s how we can have unity among the Malays. But it can’t happen at top level because of the selfishness. 

During the recent general election, Perkasa supported Umno. It’s not that we love PAS less or Umno more. Barisan did not let me use their symbol in the 2013 general election when I contested Pasir Mas seat and yet I still support them. Why? Because I don’t see an alternative.

Even in Selangor , you have (PKR) Datuk Khalid Ibrahim and Azmin Ali quarrelling over the MB post and that is only at state level.

The Barisan system however is entrenched. After the election, within a a week, the new government is formed and the cabinet is in place and the various parties being picked as ministers. MCA accepts that the DPM has to be from Umno and that all the important ministerial portfolios will held by Umno.

But say Pakatan comes into power and Anwar is PM, Who is going to be the deputy, who is going to take the important portfolios? This can jeopardise the country in terms of the economy and security because the problem can prolong.

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION & BUSINESS

Q: How long will the bumiputera need ‘crutches’?Why is it taking so long for to reach the 30% target?
A: We were under colonial rule for a long time, then we had the Confrontation with Indonesia, and there was also the May 13 (1969) incident. Our problems are not small but at least we have progressed. The bottom line is a party that ensures the stability and security of the country. That is number one. I will not compromise on this.
 

When it comes to affirmative action, we had targetted 30% for the bumiputera by 1990. While that objective was not reached, the target has not changed. I think there should be even more affirmative action to help us get there. Have you read (Amy Chua’s) World on Fire? She talks about Chinese shops in Philippines and Indonesia being burnt and Indians being killed in Africa because these minorities became too powerful and overode the majority (causing tensions). Indigenous rights must continue until the imbalance is corrected.

(Chua’s book puts forward the perspective that when developing countries take to democracy and free markets too quickly, this can result in ethnic hatred maybe even genocide.)

Q: Is the National Economic Policy a failure because it failed to reach the target?
A: I won’t say it is a failure but it didn’t achieve its objective. The Malays are still weak. They are not ready in terms of human resources, experience and capital. Some became greedy, overspent and went bankrupt.

I do feel that other races benefit more from the NEP than the Malays because the Malays become an Ali Baba of the Chinese for projects.

What is important is to me is correcting the imbalance and the sharing of the economic cake. There are no more bread and butter issue as far as I am concerned.

Najib has a policy of giving out BR1M to households with an income of below RM3,000 and this is given to all races.

Perkasa makes noise because of the slice of the economic cake. Bumiputeras make up 67.4% of the population and we want a 30% share. But look at the core sectors. Property, equity ownership, big conglomerates who controls these?

And do you think the government does not help the Chinese? How can Chinese conglomerates and tycoons succeed if they do not get a lot of help from the government? Some non Malays are given special treatment by the government. Then when they succeed, they say the Malays are lazy.

Q: But they were given help after they have proven themselves?
No. Would Lim Goh Tong succeed if the government didn’t give him a casino licence? The casino is a monopoly.
 

Q: When (Air Asia) Tony Fernandez had a good idea he went to the government and the government helped him? If the Malays have good ideas, surely the government would help them?
A: No, not necessary. Sometimes they even steal the ideas. With Tony who is behind him? I too have ideas but who is behind me? Even if you have a good idea and want to start a business you have to have big capital.

Q: When the Chinese and Indians get ideas they go to the government, seek help, get it and succeed. Why is it that the Malays are not doing the same thing because of course the government which is led by Umno would be more inclined to help the Malays?
A: When Malays ask, it is different from when Chinese ask. When the Chinese ask, they have kira kira (calculations). Sometimes it is even hard for the Malays to go and see a minister who is a Malay. If he does meet, it is not like the minister doesn’t help. He does but he does the same with the Chinese businessmen.
 

Q: But surely you can’t blame the other races for the failure of the Malays. You have to blame the Malays themselves?
A: Robert Kuok succeeded because he was given a monopoly on sugar. Why doesn’t the government help the Malay the same way?
 

Q: He got it because he asked for it . Malays got the AP to bring in imported cars. Who asked the Malays not to go the government with their own proposals and ask for it?
A: Robert Kuok was given something huge and very special which the Malays didn’t get. And don’t forget Malays have restrictions when doing business. They can’t go into (lucrative but) haram business like gambling, alcohol, 4 D lottery, massage centres or opening karaoke joints. Another thing is networking and how united the Chinese are. When they sell, they give credit facilities to other Chinese businesses so how are we Malays to compete? When we buy from the Chinese they demand cash. I’ ve been in business for long, I had my own construction before but I failed. I didn’t make money until I partnered with a Chinese. When I did, I was able to reduce my cost of operation through a credit line facilities. Why Malays fail is because the Chinese are controlling all the infrastructure in trading and material supply.
 

The Malays buy cement, concrete, aluminium and other supplies, they have to use use an overdraft because the advance the government gives them is not enough. Then when they do projects for the government, payment from government takes time and there’s corruption too.

It is true the normal Chinese man in the street do not get much help as the ordinary Malays get. I admit that. What the Chinese get is a credit line from their (Chinese) supplier that we don’t get. As for those who default in paying, that does not happen only with the Malays. There also Chinese who go bankrupt and cannot pay their bank loan. If there are ‘bad’ Malays who abuse what is given, then punish that individual. Don’t tarnish other Malays and think they are all the same.

Q: But why do you keep blaming other races?
A: I don’t blame the other races. I am just talking abut the business environment and the businesses which Muslims can’t enter because it’s haram. If my partner goes drinking or for a karaoke session with a client to discuss business, I have to excuse myself because I can’t be seen at a karaoke lounge so I don’t know what they discussed over drinks and karaoke. For us Malays being Muslims, there are many restrictions.

And because the country is multiracial, we have to compete with non-Muslims who control everything and who have no ‘psychological’ problem (with regards to entertainment). When Malays open a car workshop, sometimes they have problems getting in spare parts because they have to pay in cash while if you go to a Chinese automotive shop they have ready parts because they are extended credit by the seller.

And except for very few, the Malays can’t open a shop or restaurant at a shopping mall because they can’t afford the high rent. And they are find it hard to buy houses that cost over RM1mil.

Q: Now it sounds like you are looking down on the Malays?
A: Malays are hard working but it is the business environment and system that works against us. The Malays are not scared of competition but we want equal treatment. Then we can compete on the same level field. Not like now, where we have one hand tied down here and one leg tied down there and we get loans which are barely enough to tide us over to survive.

Q: How are Malays to compete globally if they can’t even compete in their own country?
A: The Malays have not reach 30% target but at the same time world economy is now become global and borderless. Najib needs to liberalise certain sectors to attract foreign investment to be competitive and keep up. At the same time, we have a problem so the government has to have a programme for the Malays.

But it isn’t to penetrate the global market. You need big capital for that and there are very few Malays that go global who succeed. Even the (Malaysian) Chinese, not many compete globally. You count the numbers with your fingers.

There was a time when Dr Mahathir asked the Malays to go global and businesses because they were scared of Dr Mahathir went in but they failed. I too went to places like Chile and lost millions.

Everything depends on capital outlay. It is a long process. I can’t say the number of years but we have to strive. It will come to a point where some day, 25 or 50 years down the line, things might have changed. It is a long process.

RELIGION & POLICE

Q: On the kalimah Allah issue, majority of the population in the country are Muslims, what do Muslims fear would happen if Christians use Allah?
A: I just want to answer that in short. All this while, I have been defending kalimah Allah not only because this is what Perkasa members and I believe. But based on the rule of law and enactments in states in the Peninsula which do not allow the word Allah to be used by non-Muslims in worship. But it is allowed in Sabah and Sarawak. I am not an Islamic scholar and not a mufti so we have to refer to the religious experts. And I follow what the mufti says. The fatwa council has made its statement. The muftis here have said the term ‘Allah’ belongs exclusively to the Muslims. I don’t want to go further on this because it can be misconstrued. Why kalimah Allah has become an issue is because it has turned to become a political issue. Before, this had never been an issue. You know it is during the state election in Sarawak (2011), the opposition party made this into an issue and said ‘Allah’ should be used by Christians.

Q: A lot of the overseas Muslim scholars said it is fine for the Christians to use Allah?
A: No. You read only those who said ‘yes’ but there are scholars like Zakir Naik who said ‘no it can’t be used’ but the (pro opposition) blogs do not carry those views. And Al Jazeera and CNN do not carry this.

Q: But would the faith of Muslims here be shaken if Christians use Allah?
A: From one point of view we fear that when Christians use Allah, Muslims will be influenced by them. But on the flip side, if Christians use Allah, then maybe they will get to know Islam better. There are many angles. Actually it is not a problem for me because it can go both ways. But this is a matter of aqidah (religious belief). As Muslims, our concept of Allah is different from the Christians which has the concept of trinity. With religion, we leave it to the ulamak and mufti. In the beginning, the PAS ulama said Allah can’t be used (by the Christians for worship) then later Nik Aziz and (PAS president Datuk Seri) Hadi Awang said it can. That was a political statement. Yet the Majlis Syura of PAS says it can’t.

Q: Why did you say you want to burn the Bible in Malay. You did say it didn’t you?
A: Yes I did. I was at a Penang Perkasa bumiputera convention officiated by Dr Mahathir and there was a story about two pastors distributing bibles in Malay with the kalimah Allah to students and it was an issue. And I was asked for Perkasa’s response to it. I answered that we burn things that are not good. Like if it’s an old damaged Quran then we would burn it and we would do the same with porn.

We feel that the bible in Malay with kalimah Allah in it can confuse young children so we feel we should burn it so that it doesn’t become reading material for our children. So many police reports were lodged against me but nothing happened. (DAP) Karpal Singh also called for me to be arrested. Is it wrong for me to say that ? It is not against the law.

Q: What about when you said you want to jihad against Christians?
A: The word jihad is commonly used. Muftis use it too, For us, Muslims when there is something that is not good, we will jihad (strive) against it. Jihad doesn’t mean holy war or killing someone. In our case, it doesn’t mean using physical weapons but using weapons of words and fighting with arguments and programmes. Why is there no arrest of the culprits who threw the pigs head into mosques?

Q: But some think that throwing the pig head into the mosques is not done by non-Muslims?
A: It is the same with the molotov cocktails thrown into the churches in Penang (for using kalimah Allah) recently. They accuse us of that but it is not. Why is it that you can accept their reasoning and rationale for it but can’t accept ours. Is that fair?

Q: What do you say to those who slam Perkasa as a group of samseng out to pick fights?
A: Anybody who touches Islam, Malays and the Malay Rulers without respect or say things against the law, we will come forward and fight. If they want to say we are samseng so be it. Look at Hindraf are they not samseng? If you say Perkasa is samseng, prove to me with facts and figures and substance what Perkasa has done. You’ve also got to investigate whether it is really Perkasa doing it. Because there are some people (trouble makers) who wear Perkasa tee-shirts, claim they are Perkasa but are not. We checked and they have nothing to do with us. The police checked and found nothing on us. Why is it that we are accused of being samseng and people like (Batu MP) Tian Chua who bit a policeman is not? Just because Perkasa doesn’t support the opposition and Anwar, they are creating the perception that we are racist and samseng.

Q: Perception is that the police are mostly Malays and Muslim so they always protect Perkasa?
A: Who says we are protected? If we are protected, would I have been fined RM 20,000 and jailed (for a day) (by the High Court in Nov 2013) for contempt of court for an article someone else wrote?

Anwar goes all around the country criticising his court judgement, but why is he not charged with contempt? I am angry because it is not fair.

The police have no guts. They are too afraid to act against the opposition.

I find it odd people think the police are protecting Perkasa. There are a lot of issues with the opposition we are not happy with and which the police did not act upon but we did not make noise. We don’t accuse the police of protecting them.

Also when it comes to deaths in police custody, when it involves the Malays, people (opposition) don’t make noise, but when it is non Muslims there is so much noise. Again this is not fair. They only try to find fault with us. They don’t look at their selves.

And the judge that allowed The Herald to be use ‘Allah’ is a Christian, but can we say he made the decision because he is Christian? We can’t. So you can’t say the police do not act against Perkasa just because they are Malays. Looks like Perkasa has now become everyone’s punching bag. I wouldn’t be surprised if a woman got pregnant on the street and they say it is the work of Perkasa.

FUNDING PERKASA

Q: While officiating the Perkasa assembly, Tengku Razaleigh (Ku Li) said that Perkasa public perception is that Perkasa is racist and irresponsible and needs to change. Comment?
A: That is his perception and it doesn’t matter to us. Ku Li can have his opinion. He was there as our guest and we listen to him speak and we are the gentlemen type. What is good, we accept. What we feel is not good we just continue with our struggle. It’s no big deal.

Q: What about Umno and government funding to Perkasa?  

A: That’s bullshit. There is no fund from Umno till now. Tan Sri Isa Samad said (in Dec) that Perkasa dibela ( is being looked after) by Umno and we receive cash from them. This is not true.

If what he meant was those of ex-Umno used to be ‘kept’ and looked after by Umno, well that is true. (Ibrahim himself is a former Umno supreme council member.) Just like Anwar Ibrahim and other ex-Umno leaders too were ‘kept’ and protected by Umno while they were in the party.

We at Perkasa are transparent and not liars. We do receive contributions from government agencies.

When we do a Maulidur Rasul or Israk Mikraj function or an awareness ceramah in say Perak or Kedah, we send out letters asking the government agencies for contributions. BTN (National Civics Bureau) might give us RM5,000 or RM10,000. But they also give these type of contribution to the other NGOs too.

The government has an allocation of RM50mil for NGOs. Other NGOs get much more than Perkasa. When it comes to the NGOs that support the opposition, they are being helped by state governments led by Pakatan Rakyat. So what if get help? A programme might cost about RM60,000 and government agencies give us RM3,000 and we have to top the rest with our own money.

Sometimes we don’t even ask and they give us contributions. The Special Affairs Department (Jasa) has come to us and said ‘You said you are going to do such and such function so can we give a contribution?’

Of course we will accept. These are based on programmes we have. Some people are not happy so they make noise.

The root of it is the Perkasa assembly officiated by Tengku Razaleigh. Before he spoke, I gave my speech and highlighted two things.

I said since Najib has a KPI to monitor the government agencies, who is going to determine the KPI for Najib as PM, and of the DPM and other minister and Mentris Besar? And that Perkasa will do this. And the crowd applauded.

The second point I made was on Najib’s speech during the Umno general assembly. Perkasa liked his speech, But I said it should not just be rhetoric aimed at pleasing the crowd because if Umno fails to defend the rights of the Malays, Perkasa will step in and be even more vocal. The online media jumped on this and it got haywire. And they got ministers to comment and Isa’s comment went overboard saying that we were being “kept” by Umno.
(Isa had said Perkasa could not replace Umno in looking after the Malays because Perkasa relied on Umno which protected it and gave it plenty of benefits.)

We don’t want to be a political party to replace Umno. And if we were getting government funds, I would be saying only good things about Najib but I am not.
For us, if there’s something good that the government has done, we will acknowledge it. But if there’s something bad, we ll speak up too.

We spoke up against the price hikes. But is it wrong that when Najib announces the bumiputera economic agenda which coincides with what Perkasa wants too, for us to welcome that move?
 
The opposition can’t accept facts. Just because we say something good about the government, they label us as being an Umno tool.

But know what? We don’t care what people say about us or branding us such and such. Because it has the reverse effect. Now I have the international media calling me up for comments. So Perkasa benefits from the labelling. And it keeps me, Ibrahim Ali, afloat!